Stewart Ward, professionally licensed as a Land Surveyor in Idaho, Utah, and Alaska and survey business owner, shares his honest experience of joining the Geospatial Marketing Academy — including the hesitation, the doubts and the realisation that waiting was the biggest mistake.
If you’re considering GMA and wondering whether it’s worth the investment, this is a straight-talk account of what changed, why he wishes he’d started sooner and what the journey actually looks like once you commit.
No hype. Just clarity. This is the second video in Stewart’s story. He began his GMA journey back in 2021 when we launched GMA 1.
Elaine Ball – Host, Founder of Geospatial Marketing Academy (GMA)
Stewart Ward – licensed Land Surveyor in Idaho, Utah, and Alaska and survey business owner
Elaine Ball: So it’s been a while since we last chatted. I looked back, it was 2023 when we did your last case study. What has changed in your business since we had that last discussion? I know lots of things have changed, so I’m quite happy!
Stewart Ward: Yeah, a lot has changed. I guess the biggest thing that’s changed relative to GMA is just the exposure from all the and the marketing and the social media posts that we’ve done. It’s amazing how much exposure and who’s seeing it. And like, I always think to myself, I’m just a little surveyor from Idaho. How can people in Great Britain or Africa or even other parts of the US find me and see my posts?
But it seems to travel and when I go places with other surveyors, I always get feedback on my posts and how great they are and keep up the good work and all that kind of stuff. So which is crazy to me. I would have never thought that honestly going in.
Elaine Ball: So that’s definitely spiked as you’ve grown?
Stewart Ward: Oh yeah. And then I think from a business side, we’re just getting a lot more calls. And especially recently, I’ve been getting a lot of people that just come in or call and be like, “you’re my guy. You guys are just going to do it. So we trust you. Just take care of us for us”. And I was like, okay, are you sure you don’t need a price first? “Nope, you’re good. Just take care of it.”
So they see the value there, which is great. Where before we were, I wouldn’t say bargaining price, but we were having to essentially submit a quote. And then they would be comparing it with somebody else usually and go with the lower cost. But lately, I’ve been getting a fair amount that just say just get her down.
Elaine Ball: So that’s definitely a shift.
Stewart Ward: Yeah, which is awesome. Yeah, those are the clients I like.
Elaine Ball: So looking back on your, I suppose the previous few years, what do you think your past self underestimated?
Stewart Ward: That’s a good question. I think underestimated the value of, or not maybe not the value, but the exposure the benefit of a social media market, of the marketing campaign in general, but specifically social media, and how that can affect, especially our buyers.
They’re buying a service, they’re not buying a product, they’re buying a service, and how that can affect them, and really, how many people out there have no idea what we do and and having that constant exposure educates them and which I knew we always had to do but I underestimated how far that can go initially for sure.
Elaine Ball: Yeah that’s interesting and I think everybody does, even we do sometimes when we do certain things and I think you suddenly go “wow okay that’s really grown run legs, run legs round everything.”
Elaine Ball: So if you had to give the last year a theme or a character title, what would it be?
Stewart Ward: I don’t know.
Elaine Ball: Growth?
Stewart Ward: Yeah, probably just growth and learning. Those are the biggest things in the last year, year to two years that I’ve recognized in myself and the business is the growth that we’ve had and just learning learning along the way and willing to make mistakes and grow from those mistakes and not have them hold us back.
Elaine Ball: Yeah. With the learning, what would you say is some of the things that surprised you?
Stewart Ward: Um, we have to value ourselves and learning how to value ourselves and, and how to talk to those outside of our industry in a way that they understand us.
I think we’re really, we’re really bad at our terminology, our jargon, because we assume everybody else knows those words and when we’re talking to somebody that has no clue what a surveyor does, we have to learn to use the words that they understand and explain it in a way that they recognize what we’re doing or it hits a chord with them so that they better understand what we do and why we do it and why we need to do certain things.
That’s been a big learning thing for me is just the way we speak, the way we educate has to be a little bit simplified for those they’re outside the industry.
Elaine Ball: So when you’ve learned that yourself, have you gone back to your team and said, right, this is how we need to explain it – and then they’ve literally copied and done the same thing.
Stewart Ward: Yeah, it’s as I’ve learned things and learned how they evolve or how they’ve changed even throughout that I’ve learned better ways, I should say, or refined in my ways.
And I explain that to the team. Most of the time they catch on and they’re trying to do the same thing. And I think it’s helped because then all of us are pushing out kind of the same message in the same way, or similar ways, which is good.
Elaine Ball: And it must be working because you get in the phone calls now for the business!
Elaine Ball: Okay. Which part of GMA has stuck with you the most and become second nature?
Stewart Ward: I think the biggest thing for me is – it’s not quite second nature yet – but it’s stuck with me is the consistency in posts and social media posts.
But also recognizing as people call or we’re talking to people, what they do or don’t understand about surveying and how to answer those questions appropriately.
That book “They Ask, You Answer” or whatever it is – I haven’t read the whole thing but I’ve read some of it -and that’s essentially what has stuck with me the most is paying attention to what other people are saying or the questions that they’re asking and being able to answer those questions in an intelligent but understandable way.
Elaine Ball: Yeah, Marcus Sheridan’s very good at that. Explaining it; being the client and answering everything, every type of question.
Elaine Ball: Can you share an example where a small tweak you learned in GMA turned into a big win later on?
Stewart Ward: I think the biggest thing is when I first started it, I was the both were very generic or very detailed.
It’s very technical. And then I’ve tweaked them from more technical, “Here’s what we do and the equipment we use” to “here’s an answer to your question or potential question”, I think that’s the biggest tweak that has had a big impact.
Like I said, we’re getting calls of people not even necessarily needing a quote. They’re just finding us and say “you guys are just going to take care of us for us. Take care of our project. We we don’t really care what it costs, we just need it done and and we’re not we’re not really shopping around. We came to you and you’re our guy” kind of a thing. Which is awesome.
Elaine Ball: Have you noticed… I suppose this is following on to exactly what you’re saying… have you noticed any ripple effects outside of work, confidence, decision-making, team energy?
Stewart Ward: I think our team is on the same page for sure. As I’ve learned things in GMA and then try to teach them to the team, I think they’re they’re buying into that and so that team energy is pretty consistent which is good.
And then I think outside of work, I have a little bit more confidence in talking to people. It’s still -surprisingly, it’s still hard for me to talk to people outside of work, but I do have a little more confidence because I’ve learned to listen to what they’re asking and not just jump in with an opinion immediately and I think the whole GMA understanding what the questions are and trying to answer that question from a business standpoint carries over into into like your personal life too. You’re listening a lot better than than you were before.
Elaine Ball: eah definitely and I think that’s just normal natural human behavior really. Should be!
Stewart Ward: Should be!
Elaine Ball: So what’s the most surprising opportunity that’s opened up since completing GMA, or still going through GMA because it’s still an open course anyway, so you can choose, can’t you?
Stewart Ward: I would say the most surprising opportunity that’s come up is the fact that I was, I’m not chosen, requested to be the chairman of the NSPS Marketing and Outreach Committee.
And I do think that’s a direct correlation with GMA and what I’ve learned in GMA and implemented. And I would have never guessed that I would be in that position.
Elaine Ball: So, what’s something you never expected to say yes to that you now find yourself doing?
Stewart Ward: I think that goes back to the NSPS Marketing Committee. I would have never, two years ago, I probably would have said no. But I definitely have more confidence in myself now and in that kind of role or that kind of position.
And that’s part of the biggest thing. I don’t know work related, I try to say yes to almost everything, just because it’s work, but but yeah, I think it just goes back to that that NSBS committee and saying yes to that opportunity.
Elaine Ball: What numbers or hard results can you point to now that you couldn’t a year ago?
Stewart Ward: Oh, um, hard numbers, I think the, and I don’t know for sure this is a direct correlation with GMA, but from when I started GMA to now, um, business revenue is probably three times as much.
Elaine Ball: It’s a combination.
Stewart Ward: I think it is, yeah. I don’t know how much of that is a direct correlation, but I do think that it’s partly the GMA and partly, well, the things I learned in GMA, like we’ve talked about, and bringing that back to the team and having the team on one goal, one unified front, I think helps a ton
Elaine Ball: Yeah, but also your confidence is massive. If you look back on that previous video, your confidence is so different. It wasn’t bad before. It’s up levels.
Stewart Ward: I need to watch that again then just I feel like maybe maybe about that much has changed in my confidence
Elaine Ball: But it’s your perception though so you’re you’re putting out that new perception to people and people are getting that and understanding it, whereas before you might not have portrayed that perception.
Stewart Ward: Well that’s true
Elaine Ball: You might feel still shaky inside because I do with lots of things! Everybody’s like, when I do talks on, you know, at Hexagon Live or whatever, at Dimensions and I’m absolutely shitting myself!
Everyone’ll be like, “you’re so good at it!” I’m absolutely shitting myself. I am so scared. Like, you can’t see, I’m actually shaking! It’s horrible. I don’t feel good at it. But your perception is, “I’ve got to do a good job. I’ve got to put that out there so people see me as confident.”
Stewart Ward: Right, and I will say that with that, I’m not as afraid to quote something that might be controversial. At first, I was. I was very afraid to post something controversial or something that had like a slight grammatical error or something in it like, this is just me, I’m just going to throw it out there and whatever happens, happens.
Elaine Ball: Yeah, because you’re always going to get that anyways. Keyboard warriors!
Elaine Ball: How have clients or partners reacted to the changes in how you present your business?
Stewart Ward: A lot of our clients, especially our repeat clients, have a couple of them have mentioned to me that you know, the they’re more willing to send people our way. Not that we didn’t have that before, but I’m hearing it more from them. And then new clients, I think a lot of them are just like I mentioned, they trust us, they’ve done their research, and they know what we can do and who we are, and they’re more willing to reach out to us initially than maybe to one of our competitors.
Elaine Ball: Yeah. You built the trust.
Stewart Ward: Yeah. Still working on it, trying to build it even more, but I think you can see it as when they, like I said, they call and they’re like, “you’re my first call” Or they call and say, “Okay, this is what I need. I need you to just take care of it.” And so we have that reputation, that trust with them already.
Elaine Ball: Yeah. But you built on the layers.
Stewart Ward: Yeah, with our repeat clients, I mean, I’ve got repeat clients that are 15 years old that have come back to us for the last 15 years. They’re always going to come back to us because we’ve had that trust since then, but they’re asking us to do more and more and they’re trusting us to do more.
And some of that’s from just the overall relationship, but I do think some of that is based on some of the stuff that I’ve learned and implemented through GMA.
Elaine Ball: So this is a good one. You might have to use your finger for this one! If you were to draw before, after and after after line, what does the trajectory look like?
Stewart Ward: I think it was that’s a hard one. Yeah, I think before it was, I don’t know if I could do this. I’ll have to point out my camera.
I think it was it was a steady line increasing line, but after it’s it’s definitely gone like this. It’s a steeper line and then I’m assuming the after after is just going to, it’s kind of like an exponential curve, it’s kind of what I think it looks like.
Elaine Ball: Do you put it down to like a compound effect? You know, like Albert Einstein says about the compound effect, he builds something like snowballing, doesn’t it?
Stewart Ward: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s exactly what it is, and the more I review the course and implement everything and read books and listen to podcasts and come on the calls and just learn from everybody else. I think that’s the key is learning. You can learn on your own, but I guess I, for me, the key is learning from everybody else, too, on the calls and what they’re and how they implement and building on each other, but then your team is building too at the same time. And so that’s just gonna skyrocket. Which is awesome. Scary, but it’s awesome.
Elaine Ball: Always scary, but it’s good. You got to feel the fear and do it anyway.
Elaine Ball: How do you think GMA has changed the way you think about running a business long-term?
Stewart Ward: I don’t know if it’s naturally completely changed, but my perspective of it has changed a little bit. I’ve always thought and known that running a business is a marathon not a sprint to get where you want to go.
But how you run that marathon had my my perception of that has changed a little bit with GMA. Because before we didn’t do much marketing; we’re going to rely on repeat clients and our reputation in the community, our involvement in the community, kind of a thing, which helps.
But I think the with GMA that exposure is bigger. And so your reach and your reputation is wider. You’re not just relying on your clients to do that for you, you can rely on the community, the social media community, to kind of help you out with that. Which I never would have thought was a smart idea five years ago, because I didn’t understand, but now I do.
Elaine Ball: Yeah, but that’s, I think as well, you know, with GMA, you can do as fast as you want, but the idea is you build on each section and build and deliver; try it out, test it, see what happens, tweak it.
And I think as well with the Q&A, that’s also important that like running over things, will this work? Because a lot of people are worried about like, “I need to get it all done now,” but you can’t. You’re running a business as well. You’re not just learning the marketing element, you’re looking at the whole business and how it works.
You’ve got everything in there, and I think that’s an important cue as well. It’s not just, “quick, let’s learn it, read it, done, bye, on the next bit”, it’s a builder.
Stewart Ward: Yeah. And you have to implement it. It’s one thing to go through it and learn it, but you have to implement it. And once you’ve implemented it, that’s where the real learning starts, I think. It’s the implementation of what you’ve learned, what you’ve read.
And that’s the scary part. Because at least for me, it was, like I said, you know, at the beginning, I was like, “it has to be perfect. If I’m going to post something that has to be perfect, it has to have this message or this.” And you know, learning from the course and like you have to have your own voice in it. And we’re not perfect every time. So if there’s a little mistake in there or something’s not exact, then it’s okay.
Because that’s your personality, that’s your voice. And I have noticed that some of those that are a little more authentic, do a lot better than those that are perfect grammatically or with the exact right picture or whatever it is. The ones that are a little bit off always have the biggest reach.
Elaine Ball: I think it’s because you’re just being you. You’re a human. You’re allowed to make mistakes. So it doesn’t have to be perfect. It doesn’t have to be polished. That’s the key and it’s like, you know, the human element, you know, we don’t need to be all corporate and fancy. We just need to be ourselves. Because you’re different to the guy down the road. So you will attract a different type of client base, even if you have similar customers.
Stewart Ward: Right. I had, I had a post go out yesterday that had, that someone I can’t remember, there was a word in there. And I had to actually, somebody mentioned to me that he had to laugh at your post because there’s a grammatical error in there.
Like, “what do you mean?” Like, “well, it says, ain’t instead of art” or something like that. And I’m like, “Oh, that’s okay. I did that on purpose” and all right so it’s still like ok because it’s more of the way I speak a little bit sometimes and so I was like “that’s the way I would say it so that’s the way it’s going to go in there.”
Elaine Ball: yeah correct. It’s you. Then when people read your content it’s like you’re speaking to them. Yeah, that’s the brand voice.
Elaine Ball: So if GMA 1.0 we’ve got GMA 2.0 coming out and building on what we’ve currently got but if GMA 1.0 was the start of your journey, what’s the next mountain you’re climbing?
What have you got set? What’s the news? I mean, can you share any secrets?
Stewart Ward: Right now, the biggest mountain in front of me is from a marketing standpoint, point is the NSPS committee, which is a huge mountain because it’s new. And then just business-wise, just trying to figure out new content and building on what’s already been done and trying to make that even bigger and that’s that’s been hard for me. So that’s kind of a mountain to climb for me personally, is how how do I build even more on what I’ve done and not not get too overwhelmed where then I just give up.
Elaine Ball: Yeah keep the consistency going. Yeah. The compound effect.
Stewart Ward: That’s hard to do when you’re like we said that work, family life, recreational activities, or kids in activities, they’re all different ways and trying to stay focused on even those little things is sometimes really hard to do.
Elaine Ball: Yeah, but this is where your next level comes. So your next mountain like right, “I want to grow that so what do we need to put in place?” You might need a marketing person.
You might need a marketing assistant; somebody who can even from a starting point on admin who can be doing books as well as some of the content creation side.
A junior surveyor who’s got that quirkiness that could probably help you in that sort of area to build on it.
Because there are levels on how you automate it, it just needs to be built.
Stewart Ward: Yeah, and that’s something I need to look into, because so far everything’s been done by me. Yeah and and it’s been it’s been a struggle sometimes to carve out the time to focus on on that side of the business when when you’re pulled so hard the other direction with everything else but then that might be the next mountain to climb.
Elaine Ball: Yeah. Totally agree. And also you’re delving into the realm of non-surveyor type person. How do you handle it? How do you deal with them? So you’ve got all that people skills to learn. So that’s another whole remit.
Elaine Ball: So what advice would you give to someone who is considering the GMA journey? I’m calling it a journey because it is literally a journey – or looking for something to help them up level their businesses?
Stewart Ward: I would say if you’re looking at the GMA, don’t hesitate. I think I hesitated for a little bit when I first heard about it, trying to figure out if it was right, if it was worth the investment and looking back, I wish I would have started sooner.
But for somebody that’s looking into it, I would say dive into it, dive into it head first and learn as much as you can.
Elaine Ball: What do you think puts you… generally surveyors are very introvert and reserved and not quick to buy the latest equipment, they want to test it and see what it does and the same with business, especially if that’s not your trained skill.
So what are some of the things you think that made you hesitate? What did you have to do to prove that GMA and I was trustworthy?
Stewart Ward: I think the biggest thing that made me hesitate was is the fear of failure, or maybe not failure, but the fear of investing in something and not following through.
And I think the biggest thing for me that changed my mind, or not necessarily changed my might, but forced me to just do it was, one I was, I was just looking to grow the business, find ways to grow the business. I knew that, you know, times were changing and the way we get our message out had to change with that, you know, society’s changing going from analog to digital kind of a thing.
And just talking to other surveyors and, you know, the, not necessarily the complaints, but we always had stories on, you know, “this person called me and they had no idea what we were, what we do.” And I had to educate them. I had to help them do this. And that kind of triggered my thoughts of, well, there’s got to be a way to do this.
And the more I looked into GMA and what you were doing with it, the more I was intrigued and how that could help. Because I knew you from Get Kids into Survey and some of those campaigns that you do. And I didn’t know anybody that was doing GMA when I started. I had seen some of your posts on on LinkedIn mostly I think, when it first started about what it can do and how it can help, because Polly, you know, you had a lot of stories with Polly at the beginning and just listening to how listening and reading, how that has changed her and their business, kind of changed my mind or my outlook on it a little bit.
I already, from the Get Kids into Survey and some of the other stuff, I kind of already trusted you without even knowing you.
And then this was just, I think, an easy transition, going from knowing you from Get Kids and being a sponsor on some of those early posters to be up into this course.
And it was, honestly, it was kind of like, “what the hell, what is there to lose?” kind of a thing? And so that’s one of the reasons why I did it. I wasn’t necessarily afraid to fail, but I wasn’t afraid to try.
And that’s, but that’s one thing that I always put in my mind. If I’m going to start something, I’m going to follow through with it kind of my own personal accountability. So if I start something, I have to finish it or I have to follow through with it. And that was the biggest thing for me at least once I signed up, I wasn’t giving up.
And that was where I had to get mentally prepared for that to have that mentality that, “if doing this, I’m not going to give up!” And before I think I was afraid that I would, or there was other stuff going on in business or in life that probably would have pushed me to not follow through.
I think that’s probably the biggest thing for me personally is that accountability. And the weekly calls is another good accountability tool, too, I think. At least for me it was
Elaine Ball: Yeah, some people use them and some people don’t and that’s just that’s fine. You know everybody learns very differently and some people don’t want to share, some people want to do it behind the scenes, some people want to share and that’s fine.
Elaine Ball: I’m quite intrigued because I asked you about being a brand ambassador for the next 2.0 launch, which is in production right now. It’s driving me insane! But I suppose what made you go, “yeah, I’d love to be your brand ambassador Elaine!”
Stewart Ward: I think a lot of it is just from personal experience with GMA 1.0 and the benefit and the success that I’ve seen in my personal life and business.
If surveyors are a small community, overall, we’re fairly tight-knit. We all run into the same issues no matter where we are, and I think if we can all learn from each other or have that same message, that same training kind of a thing, I think it helps all of us in the long run.
But the biggest thing I think is just my personal growth and personal success that I’ve had with it. Anybody that asks me what I’m doing and what’s changed with the social media posts and stuff, I always say “This is what I’m doing. This is what I’ve learned. This is who I learned it from. If you want to know more, go sign up.” So, I think from that standpoint, being an ambassador for 2.0 is kind of a no-brainer
Elaine Ball: Now you do realize that we’re going to track your business now, don’t you? This is like a theme that we’ve started. Now I’m going to push you more out of your comfort zone!
Stewart Ward: I need it, but it’s scary. You always try to push me out of my comfort zone no matter what I’m doing anyway.
Elaine Ball: Right. I’d never push you down the wrong way.
Stewart Ward: That’s true. But it’s gonna be it’s gonna be outside my comfort zone no matter what. I understand that and as scary as that is, I’m up for the challenge.
Elaine Ball: Thank you very much! Appreciate it!
Stewart Ward: Yeah thank you, it’s been fun!